more than 4 primary partitions on one hard disk

[w3a537]

I am currently a user of BOOTITNG from TERABYTE.

I would like to try the PLOP boot manager.

I have some questions first.

I configure BOOTITNG as follows on all of my systems ...

First HD group 1 part A DOS FAT16 pri 384mb C: -| Boot group 1 DOS
First HD group 1 part B DOS FAT16 pri 384mb D: -|
First HD group 1 part C DOS FAT16 pri 384mb E: -|

First HD group 2 part D DOS FAT16 pri 384mb C: -| Boot group 2 DOS
First HD group 2 part E DOS FAT16 pri 384mb D: -|
First HD group 2 part F DOS FAT16 pri 384mb E: -|

First HD group 3 part G WIN7 NTFS pri 32767mb C: -| Boot group 3 WIN7
First HD group 3 part H WIN7 NTFS pri 32767mb D: -|
First HD group 3 part I WIN7 NTFS pri 32767mb E: -|

First HD group 4 part J WIN7 NTFS pri 32767mb C: -| Boot group 4 WIN7
First HD group 4 part K WIN7 NTFS pri 32767mb D: -|
First HD group 4 part L WIN7 NTFS pri 32767mb E: -|

The partition groups are as shown above.

As configured BOOTITNG enables only the three partitions
in the selected boot gtoup.

Can something similar be acheived with PLOP?

Thanks in advance.

Steve Broshears ...

[Elmar]

yes, thats possible. but 4 partitions per group (in plop its profile) is possible.

regards
elmar

[w3a537]

Thank you.

My next question.

I am installing with a CDDVD burned from the ISO file.

How do you configure the location and size of the partition?

I set up a partition name.
I set up the type as big dos.

There is a 5 x 16 matrix to configure.
I assume this is where it's done.

What do I do. What should the numbers be.

An example, say for DOS boot partition group 1
C: D: and E: would be helpful.

Thanks, Steve ...

[Elmar]

the plop boot manager has no partitioner included. so you have to do the partition stuff with an operating system. you can use partition magic or a linux with gparted (plop linux with X, or the linux of gparted or any other). i think the whole procedure is not so easy to handle with bootitng (i never used bootitng), but the plop boot manager is very small and its no standard procedure to have so many primary partitions on one hard disk. but when you understand the concept, then its not so difficult and you can create all quickly.

when you want to so many primary partitions on one hard disk as you described, then i would do it in this way:

• 
  1st system:
  create 4 partitions with gparted
  set the boot flag on the first partition with "manage flags" and set "boot"
  
  install the plop boot manager to the hard disk
  now you have the first preconfigured profile . its called  "installed os"
  
  go to setup/partitions
  rename hda1 to "g1 part a"
  rename hda2 to "g1 part b"
  rename hda3 to "g1 part c"
  rename hda4 to "g2 part a"
  
  go to setup/profiles
  rename "installed os" to "dos 1"
  
  go to select partitions
  press enter at first position and choose "g1 part a"
  press enter at second position and choose "g1 part b"
  press enter at third position and choose "g1 part c"
  on the fourth position press "c" for cleared
  esc and save
  
  
• 
  2nd system:
  boot manager:
  go to setup/partitions
  setup the empty partitions entries, press enter at an empty one, set the name to "g2 part b", set hard disk to hda
  continue until all your partitions have names.
  
  go to setup/profiles and use an empty one
  give it a name "dos 2", set visible to yes
  
  go to linked partitions, choose for the first partition "g2 part a" press "b" to set the bootflag to this partition (it doesn't matter that its not boot able), choose for the second entry "g2 part b", third "g2 part c", fourth "g3 part a"
  esc and save
  boot this profile. it will run into error because there is no system.
  
  start gparted
  create 3 partitions after the first. the space before the first partition must be untouched because there are the partitions of "dos 1" but you don't see them.
  after you created the 3 new partitions then reboot from hard disk. plop should tell you that partitions have been changed. press "y" to import the changes.
  go again to the profile settings of "dos 2" and linked partitions. press at the 4th position "c" to set this partition as cleared. you could use a 4th partition too if you want.
  
  
• 
  do the same with the two windows partitions.
  

its possible to import partition entries without the "change detection feature", but thats another topic.

i hope you understood the concept. if not then ask. i will try to explain it better.

best regards
elmar

[w3a537]

Thank you.

I have downloaded and burned a GPARTED live cd.
I have located a good GPARTED tutorial.

I will let you know after I try things out.

Steve ...

[w3a537]

Progress report.

The tutorial was useless.
The first example was from a system with partitions already present.
This first example was to resize one of the already existing partitions.
The second example was to create an extended partition in the resulting freespace.
Then to start filling it up.
So much for the tutiorial.

So I started stumbeling around.

And I finally figured out and have successfully created
three fat16 primary partitions at the beginning of the hard disk.

Now I am going to continue with your instructions.

[w3a537]

How do I install PLOP to the hard disk?

I booted the PLOP CD.

It starts with HDA partition 1, HDA 2, and HDA 3.
Then floppy, cdrom, and usb.

Then SETUP. I clicked on this.
A warning is displayed. I hit enter.

The options are partitions, profiles, and bootmanager.
I'm guessing I should select bootmanager.
Under bootmanager there are 17 things to configure.

[Elmar]

you have to use plpinst.iso from the install directory.

[w3a537]

Startmode I selected menu.
Boot countdown I selected yes
Countdown I selected 12 seconds.

For select at start I am confused.
What I want is to select something to boot from the menu,
but that's not an avialable selection.

[Elmar]

forget the settings in setup/boot manager. you dont have to setup there anything now.
what do you see in setup/partitions?

[w3a537]

"you have to use plpinst.iso from the install directory"

I burned the CD from this ISO file.

And I am booted from the CD I made.

After I booted the CD several selections are available.
The ISO file is not an avialable selection and I wouldn't expect it to be.

Steve ...

[Elmar]

whats the name of the iso you used to burn the cd?
from where did you get this iso file?

[w3a537]

Setup partitions gives a PARTITIONS menu
which is empty.

Steve ...

[Elmar]

whats the name of the iso you used to burn the cd?
from where did you get this iso file?

please answer this questions

[w3a537]

I downloaded the ISO file from your web page four days ago.

It seems there were two ISO files available.
It was the smaller of the two.

I am looking for where I put it now but  it isn't in the normal download directory.
And it isn't in the recycle bin either.

[Elmar]

the boot manager download page has no iso file to download. there are only zip files. in the zip file is the livecd iso and in a sub directory ("install") is the install iso file which is required to install the boot manager to the hard disk.
http://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager.html#cdinst

[w3a537]

Yes yes, the ISO file was in a ZIP.

And I have a good PLOP boot CD that I am bootion from.
Otherwise I wouldn't be booting the PLOP CD successfully.
And I am booting from the CD I burned.

[Elmar]

when you boot the cd and you get the menu with setup, about, ... then you booted the livecd and not the install cd.

plpbt.iso = livecd  <- you cannot use it to install the boot manager to the hard disk
install\plpbtin.iso = install cd <- with this you can install the boot manager to the hard disk

[w3a537]

Should I burn the 1664kb file
or the 288kb file.

And from ROOT or the INSTALL directory.

All 4 ISO's are on my D: now.

Steve ...

[Elmar]

as i said multiple times from the install directory the file plpbtin.iso
it has exact 1703936 bytes (boot manager 5.0.10)

[w3a537]

OK and I will make a new CD drom PLPBTIN.

[Elmar]

i updated the instructions for system 1. i forgot to say: set the boot flag on the first partition with "manage flags" and set "boot"
when you don't do it, then you have to create the first profile by your self with "setup/profiles".

[w3a537]

I booted the CD.

PLOP seems to have installed successfully.

While booted (still) from the install CD I can't find a SETUP PROFILES.

Should I try booting from the hard disk?

Steve ...

[Elmar]

remove the install cd and boot from the hard disk

[w3a537]

Thank you.

It's late here and I have to get up early.

And I made a mistake anyway.
I only created 3 partitions with GPARTED.

I didn't realize the 4th had a special purpose.

I need to bo back and fix this, but tomorrow.

Goodnight, Steve ...

[Elmar]

I only created 3 partitions with GPARTED.

I didn't realize the 4th had a special purpose.

yes the 4th acts a barrier when you create the next set of partitions. a barrier is needed that you do not create new partitions over the not visible but already created partitions of another profile.

[w3a537]

I forgot to say: set the boot flag on the first partition with "manage flags" and set "boot".

In GPARTED I found where to set the

• boot flag with no problems.
  
  However the second 'and set "boot"' I cannot find in GPARTED.
  Is this setting in PLOP somewhere?
  
  And ...
  

[w3a537]

In the instructions it says ...

go to select partitions
press enter at first position and choose "g1 part a"

etc.

I cannot locate where "go to select partitions" is located.

Thank you for your excellent and propmt assistance.

Sorry that I'm being so much trouble.

Steve Broshears.

[Elmar]

In GPARTED I found where to set the

• boot flag with no problems.
  
  However the second 'and set "boot"' I cannot find in GPARTED.
  

thats ok, i was only meaning setting the boot flag with garted

In the instructions it says ...

go to select partitions
press enter at first position and choose "g1 part a"

etc.

I cannot locate where "go to select partitions" is located.

i mean "linked partitions" in setup/profiles
before 5.0 it was called "select partitions"

[w3a537]

For information I am busy for a few days.

Probably on Sunday I will be able to get back to PLOP BOOTMANAGER.

Steve Broshears ...

Thanks for your excellent software and your help.

[w3a537]

I'm now at the ...

2nd system:
boot manager:

step in the instructioins.

I went to SETUP
              BOOTMANAGER

But I don't think this is correct.

Could you help me please.

I'm just leaving the new system as it is.

[w3a537]

•2nd system:
boot manager:
go to setup/partitions
setup the empty partitions entries, press enter at an empty one, set the name to "g2 part b", set hard disk to hda
continue until all your partitions have names.

---

Do you want me to go to SETUP PARTITIONS
and fill in the rest of the box,

even though they don't really have partitions created
by GPARTED to link to yet?

I think this may be what you want me to do.

[Elmar]

yes, give the entries names and set them to hda.

[w3a537]

Two questions ...

There are a maximum of 16 partitions.
The entry where I pressed "c" -to- clear.
Does this "clearing" use up one of the available partitions?

I am at where the instructions say 2nd system.

For the 1st system you had me create the partitions first with GPARTED.
Then secondly in PLOP BOOTMANAGER you had me link everything to them.
In PLOP I can see exactly what linked to what else.
I can see all the link information and everything looks correct.

For the second system you want me to create the links first
and the partitions themselves secondly.

I will not be able to see the link information all the way to the partitions
when I create the links.

[w3a537]

Would it work for the 2nd system and up if I created the partitions first in GPARTED
then created the links secondly in PLOP?

Like the way you had me do it for the 1st system.

Thanks, Steve ...

[Elmar]

Would it work for the 2nd system and up if I created the partitions first in GPARTED
then created the links secondly in PLOP?

Like the way you had me do it for the 1st system.

no,

maybe i have to explain it better

at the beginning of the second system, you prepare something like a shell with a name of the partition (handled inside plop) and the hard disk where the partitions will be. the partition definition (id, start, size) will be imported to the shell later

how does the import work:
1) you link one or more partitions (in this case empty shells with no definitions) to a profile (setup/profiles/profile name/linked partitions)
2) you boot the profile -> this will run into error (if you have no system on the selected boot partition), but the boot manager knows now what partition entries should be checked at next startup to see the changes and gives you the chance to import it easily .
3) the partition entries are still undefined. start gparded and create the partitions after the barrier partition.
4) reboot to hard disk
5) the boot manager detects that partition 2,3 and 4 have been changed (from 0 values to an id, start and size value)
6) you can import the partitions values with "y" and the empty shells will be filled. if you choose "n" then the shells in the boot manager are still empty. this feature is primary used in the case that any bad program deletes or changes your partitions definitions and you don't want this. the boot manager compares the values in the mbr with its own and then it ask you to import the new or keep the old when something is different. but it can be used for your task too.

i hope its clearer now. so first prepare the empty shells. this will speed up the process. follow the steps and it will work without problems (i hope)

[w3a537]

And my other question ...

There are a maximum of 16 partitions.
The entry where I pressed "c" -to- clear.
Does this "clearing" use up one of the available partitions?

[Elmar]

And my other question ...

There are a maximum of 16 partitions.
The entry where I pressed "c" -to- clear.
Does this "clearing" use up one of the available partitions?

i haven't seen the post before.

what happens when you use "c":
lets take as example the 4th entry of hda. you press "c" and see "cleared" at this position. this affects only the mbr when you boot this profile.
when you boot it, then the boot manager will set in the mbr of hda all values to 0 for the 4th partition. the partition definitions that are stored inside the boot manager are not affected. when you want to have any partition that is stored in the boot manager, the simply set it in a profile to then 4th partition of hda and it will be filled with the partition definitions at next boot of the profile.
"c" is basically used, when you want that a partition entry in the mbr is not filled with any partition definitions.
when you press "c" to set a partition entry to "cleared" in a profile, then the boot manager will set all values to 0 in the mbr entry.

warning: when the 4th partition entry is filled with a partition that is not stored in the boot manager, then those partition definitions are lost and must be rescued.
such not stored partition entries are lost too when you overwrite it with a partition that is stored in the boot manager.

[w3a537]

Elmar:

I have changed the way I want to configure my system a little bit.
For compatibility so I can fit everything I need into 16 partitions.
Will the following work?

The single hard disk in my laptop as follows
--------------------------------------------

Code Select Expand


PtA > A-MDOS-16-C, FAT16, Pri, 1023MB > PLOP Name is also A-MDOS-16-C < PLOP group is A-MDOS-16 C:

PtB > B-FDOS-16-C, FAT16, Pri, 1023MB > PLOP Name is also B-FDOS-16-C < PLOP group is B-FDOS-16 C:

PtC > C-EDOS-16-C, FAT16, Pri, 1023MB > PLOP Name is also C-EDOS-16-C < PLOP group is C-EDOS-16 C:

PtD > D-WIN7-32-C, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also D-WIN7-32-C < PLOP group is D-WIN7-32 C:
PtE > D-WIN7-32-D, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also D-WIN7-32-D          "                D:
PtF > D-WIN7-32-E, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also D-WIN7-32-E          "                E:

PtG > E-WIN7-32-C, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also E-WIN7-32-C < PLOP group is E-WIN7-32 C:
PtH > E-WIN7-32-D, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also E-WIN7-32-D          "                D:
PtI > E-WIN7-32-E, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also E-WIN7-32-E          "                E:
                                                                               "
PtJ > F-WIN7-64-C, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also F-WIN7-32-C < PLOP group is F-WIN7-64 C:
PtK > F-WIN7-64-D, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also F-WIN7-32-D          "                D:
PtL > F-WIN7-64-E, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also F-WIN7-32-E          "                E:

PtM > G-WIN7-64-C, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also G-WIN7-32-C < PLOP group is G-WIN7-64 C:
PtN > G-WIN7-64-D, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also G-WIN7-32-D          "                D:
PtO > G-WIN7-64-E, NTFS, Pri, 32768MB > PLOP Name is also F-WIN7-32-E          "                E:

  ^   ^         ^                                                                     ^
  |   |         |- Partition group drive letters              Boot groups as letters -|
  |   |
  |   |- Partition group letters
  |
  |- Partitions as letters


[w3a537]

Sorry, the proportional font caused some mis-alignment.

[Elmar]

Will the following work?

yes this will work

Sorry, the proportional font caused some mis-alignment.

i added the code statement, now its better to read

[w3a537]

Thank you and it reads well now.

Steve ...

[w3a537]

I am at this point for the first time ...

---

start gparted
create 3 partitions after the first. the space before the first partition must be untouched because there are the partitions of "dos 1" but you don't see them.

---

I am confused.

"create 3 partitions after the first" with "first" being the confusion point.

According to the instructions I have already created the first partition
of the second group.

The instructions seem to indicate now at this point, that the first partition
of the second group shouldn't be there.

What should I be doing at this point.

Steve ...

[w3a537]

A question.

After I get a system completely set up
is there a way to use this system to
automatically configure a second system.

Such as automating the next system
using all the steps from installing the
first system.

Or possibly doing an image of the disk
on the first system and copying it
to the second system.

This imaging technique is fully provided
for in BOOTITNG. You must be very careful
that the first system is fully correct.

Then you just clone the next hundred
or thousand systems.

Steve ...

[Elmar]

I am at this point for the first time ...

---

start gparted
create 3 partitions after the first. the space before the first partition must be untouched because there are the partitions of "dos 1" but you don't see them.

---

I am confused.

"create 3 partitions after the first" with "first" being the confusion point.

According to the instructions I have already created the first partition
of the second group.

The instructions seem to indicate now at this point, that the first partition
of the second group shouldn't be there.

What should I be doing at this point.

Steve ...

when you start gparted after you made the dummy boot of profile 2, then g2 part a became hda1, so it became the first partition. create g2 partb, g2 part c and g3 part a after hda1. difficult? i don't think so. reboot and let the boot manager import the partitions. the docu is correct, trust it.

A question.

After I get a system completely set up
is there a way to use this system to
automatically configure a second system.

Such as automating the next system
using all the steps from installing the
first system.

Or possibly doing an image of the disk
on the first system and copying it
to the second system.

This imaging technique is fully provided
for in BOOTITNG. You must be very careful
that the first system is fully correct.

Then you just clone the next hundred
or thousand systems.

Steve ...

you can save the configuration and the partition definitions and restore it on an empty machine with ex. linux dd. imaging can be realized with linux too.

elmar