Author Topic: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems  (Read 18939 times)

a_catalin

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Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« on: May 24, 2011, 07:36:11 AM »
Hi.
I tested 5.0.12.
To those who don't know what I previously wrote: I can boot from USB but only 1.1. Endless minutes to load a Minipe... So I try to use the boot manager to make it 2.0.
I'm using grub4dos.
The problems are (previously mentioned):
1. If I go fast in menu with up/down arrows it selects one of them and locks the computer.
2. If I select and activate the USB menu item too fast it locks the computer.
3. If I succesfully activate the USB menu item then it works fine in less then 1/4 of the programs I use.
4. In 1, 2 and 3, to be able to activate USB menu item again I have to shut down the computer for at least 5 seconds before that.

Elmar, thank you very much for trying to help us but I lost any hope that your program will be improved for my current mainboard (and for my friends's mainboards, I tested on their computers also).
Instead I will buy a mainbord which will be able to boot USB 2.0 natively.
I think it's the best solution.

Best regards, Catalin.

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2011, 10:44:38 AM »
strange things are happening on your computer

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2011, 10:58:24 AM »
Yes, strange, but not only on my computer, on the computers of my friends also (like I mentioned in my previous reply).
I tried even with 4 different USB devices (2 mine, 2 from my friends).
The only 2 things in common (in all situations): the boot manager and grub4dos.
Too bad that I don't have a video camera to record to see for yourself...

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2011, 11:01:19 AM »
can you boot with the bios from floppy or cd?

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2011, 11:28:43 AM »
I don't have a floppy drive in my computer. I haven't used one for many years. I have it somewhere in my apartment (I have to search). But no floppy disks. Anyway I stop using them because they have the highest rate of errors.

I can boot from CD but:
- I can't write a new CD with updates every few days. On USB it's a lot easier to update.
- My USB HDD (2.0) is a lot faster than CD;
- CDROM drives are mechanical and they break a lot faster if they are used in such way (especially because the loading of Minipe doesn't use a RAM cache/buffer) + mine it's a DVD Writter and I have to be even more careful if I want to write DVD's well...

That's why I was happy to find USB boot...

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2011, 11:39:37 AM »
i asked, because i want that you start the plop boot manager without grub, to be sure that the strange things are happening too when it is alone in the ram.

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2011, 12:08:08 PM »
Ok, I tried with a rewritable DVD.

When I press up/down faster than 1 Hz all of the sudden, like I pressed Return key, my OS from HDD starts.
In my opinion it's the same problem because when I start directly from USB drive with grub4dos, my internal HDD is seen as second drive (and perhaps is trying to load something that can't boot).

Pressing down key every 2-3 sec I reached to USB menu item; I tried 3 times to start it, each time locked the computer. I even tried those 5 sec of shutdown, no luck. So I can't tell you which program works fine and which isn't with the driver...

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2011, 12:17:15 PM »
i dont understand. is the computer looked too when you start the boot manager from dvd instead of grub?

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2011, 12:31:16 PM »
Yes it's blocked/locked (sorry my English). Only reset and power button works. Keyboard and mouse don't work.
Same thing happens sometimes with grub4dos - I press Return key on USB menu item and the computer blocks/locks.
It seems like there is a narrow time interval in which activating USB menu item works fine; unfortunately not even now I can't say for sure what are the values.
Just speculating  ::)

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2011, 12:42:15 PM »
i dont understand. is the computer looked too when you start the boot manager from dvd instead of grub?

i forgot to add some words. i was meaning

is the computer looked too when you start the boot manager from dvd instead of grub and you press the up and down keys fast and the select something (except usb)?

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 12:57:36 PM »
What you asked I explained previously, sorry for not explaining better:

When I press up/down faster than 1 Hz all of the sudden, like I pressed Return key, my OS from HDD starts.
In my opinion it's the same problem because when I start directly from USB drive with grub4dos, my internal HDD is seen as second drive (and perhaps is trying to load something that can't boot).

So it doesn't lock anymore when I start from DVD and press up/down fast, instead it starts the OS from HDD (XP x86).

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2011, 13:02:34 PM »
so it seem, that lock problem with the fast up and down is not a problem caused by my boot manager.

what grub version do you use? have you tried to use another grub or syslinux?

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2011, 13:14:31 PM »
Wait, as I said it's still creating problem because it's starting my OS from HDD without pressing return key.
It's locking the computer under grub4dos because USB device is seen first instead of my internal HDD (from DVD the internal HDD is seen as first) and I think that the boot manager tries to boot from an unbootable partition.
That's why it's locking the computer.

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 13:21:35 PM »
i think i still dont understand.

however, about usb drive:
It's locking the computer under grub4dos because USB device is seen first instead of my internal HDD (from DVD the internal HDD is seen as first) and I think that the boot manager tries to boot from an unbootable partition.
That's why it's locking the computer.

the usb device became the first internal hard disk, because most boot loaders and systems assume they are starting on the first internal hard disk.

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2011, 13:26:58 PM »
the usb device became the first internal hard disk, because most boot loaders and systems assume they are starting on the first internal hard disk.

Yes, I know this.

i think i still dont understand.

If you don't understand my explanations, sorry... I will try to explain better...

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2011, 13:30:57 PM »
try a simple step by step explanation what you do / using / whats happening like

pc power on
starting plop from dvd
selecting partition 1 to boot
booting windows -> all ok

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2011, 13:40:58 PM »
Ok.

pc power on
starting boot from USB
loading grub4dos menu
loading plop from grub menu
pressing down key a few times to reach USB menu item
screen black with blinking cursor, keyboard/mouse frozen

pc power on
starting plop from DVD
pressing down key a few times to reach USB menu item
the OS from internal HDD suddenly starts

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2011, 14:17:09 PM »
you have to remember that i am not in front of your pc and i do not see what you see and what you do

pc power on
starting plop from DVD
pressing down key a few times to reach USB menu item
the OS from internal HDD suddenly starts

does suddenly mean it starts as soon as the bar is on the usb option and you don't press any key again?


a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2011, 14:21:49 PM »
No, it means while I still press the down key. The bar hasn't reached USB option (as far I can see, because it's happening very fast).

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2011, 14:27:59 PM »
i give up. i have no idea. my boot manager is using the standard bios interrupt to handle the keyboard input.

bomz

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2011, 18:07:48 PM »
to boot from floppy use maping floppy.ima with grub4dos

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2011, 19:30:35 PM »
Thank you, yes, in grub4dos the boot manager can be loaded as floppy image, iso or directly bin (like I do now).
But this is not issue that we discussed here...

bomz

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2011, 04:44:44 AM »
I don't have a floppy drive in my computer. I haven't used one for many years. I have it somewhere in my apartment (I have to search). But no floppy disks. Anyway I stop using them because they have the highest rate of errors.

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2011, 04:54:23 AM »
Ok, but I repeat: this is not the issue(s)/problem(s) that we discussed here - if you bothered to read the entire thread.
But I thanked you for trying to help. What more can I do...?
BTW, Elmar asked about a REAL floppy drive, not a grub4dos simulation (mapping or other kind).

bomz

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2011, 06:33:50 AM »
I read all topic because 12 version don't boot CD on my computer to. But all that I may say - where find floppy in our hard for floppy times
I back to 11.2 and all is OK
http://forum.plop.at/index.php/topic,1070.0.html

Virtual Floppy Drive 2.1 - for windows
or syslinux for boot(as grub), or CD floppy emulation without write
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 06:40:54 AM by bomz »

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2011, 19:57:02 PM »
Ok...
I tried mapping it as a floppy in grub4dos - same problem.

However I noticed another problem - much more serious but rare.
Today I noticed that the boot partition from USB drive is missing. No problem, I have made backup on internal HDD a week ago.
I tried with the boot manager mapped as floppy, no change, I boot into Windows XP and noticed that 'D' is missing. For a moment I froze...
On D drive I have a lot of important data...
I thought it was hidden but, no, it was deleted.
I used Paragon Harddisk manager and I undelete the partition. It seems that the data is fine (so far)...

I don't think that it was a hardware problem. Before and after using the boot manager I have never lost a partition on the internal HDD and very rare on the USB drive.
It seems that Plop boot manager + pressing up/down fast to make it generate that error = sometimes it deletes a partition.
I could be wrong, of course, I'm no expert in boot managers...

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2011, 20:08:25 PM »
what can i say.

1) make a backup of your mbr's (with linux) , then its easy to write them back when they are lost.

2)
Today I noticed that the boot partition from USB drive is missing.

the boot manager has absolutely no usb write routines. when you lost the partitions on usb then it has to be erased with bios routines or an os with usb write support. what usb bios support does you computer have?

3) can you reproduce it with another hardware (other motherboard and other keyboard and other bios)?

elmar

a_catalin

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2011, 20:20:17 PM »
1) make a backup of your mbr's (with linux) , then its easy to write them back when they are lost.

Ok, but the partitions were deleted, not mbr...

2)
the boot manager has absolutely no usb write routines. when you lost the partitions on usb then it has to be erased with bios routines or an os with usb write support. what usb bios support does you computer have?

Ok...
It knows to boot from a few USB drive types (HDD, CDrom, Floppy,,) but only 1.1

3) can you reproduce it with another hardware (other motherboard and other keyboard and other bios)?

I'd like to help you find the cause but, sorry, one "stroke" was enough...
I cannot risc losing the data again.

Elmar

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2011, 20:34:23 PM »
Ok, but the partitions were deleted, not mbr...

the partitions are defined and stored in the mbr. when you "lost" partitions, then only the entry in the mbr or the whole mbr is set to 0 values. when you use a recovery program, then the program simply searches for a boot sector (or similar) and recalculates the partition start/size and writes it to the mbr. i can do (and did) the same with a hex editor, its no magic.


Ok...
It knows to boot from a few USB drive types (HDD, CDrom, Floppy,,) but only 1.1

is there an option to disable usb features in the bios?

I'd like to help you find the cause but, sorry, one "stroke" was enough...
I cannot risc losing the data again.

your choice, but please don't post again a "nothing changed", because the boot manager behavior will not change from alone. however, the strange things on your pc is not a common problem. searching for an absolutely rare problem has no high priority for me (especially searching a rare bug over the net).

« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 20:40:11 PM by Elmar »

vesalocal

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Re: Nothing changed for me in 5.0.12: same problems
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2011, 14:45:32 PM »
Quote
I thought it was hidden but, no, it was deleted.

There was a similar issue a few days ago.
 Please use the Search function, phrase "partition deleted" will do.