packetmanager?

[Systemcrasher]

Hi Freaks,

is it possible to integrate a packetmanager (like pacman) into ploplinux?

In this way maybe i could use known repositories.


I tested Plop-live at my Amilo-laptop. But there were no mostly used packets. It is a little bit to much work to search for all sources, download and install manual.

It's a hard work to search for updates for all installed packets.

[Elmar]

is it possible to integrate a packetmanager (like pacman) into ploplinux?

In this way maybe i could use known repositories.

no, i dont think that i add a packetmanager. plop linux is not based on debian, redhat, suse or any other distribution. somebody has to create a database with all current dependencies that you can use one of those repositories. i will never do that. when you want to use repositories, then you have to use another distribution.

... It is a little bit to much work to search for all sources, download and install manual.

It's a hard work to search for updates for all installed packets.

i dont think so. i am doing that since so many years without big problems. i was able to compile whatever i needed.

[mhe]

I added pkgutils from CRUX.
It needs libarchive. After adding pkgutils, you can rebuild/upgrade existing software or use available buildscripts/Pkgfiles to add stuff.
If someone is interested, I can write down the steps.

[Elmar]

fell free to write a how to

[mhe]

Here goes. If you want to use pkgutils as package manager.

First you will need libarchive. Check http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/svn/general/libarchive.html on how to install.
Second step is adding pkgutils itself. Pkgutils is the package manager used by CRUX and Nutyx. You can get it here: https://crux.nu/files/pkgutils-5.35.6.tar.gz.
I edit the Makefile, by changing the mandir to /usr/share/man and more importantly I change these lines so they read:

LIBARCHIVELIBS := $(shell pkg-config --libs  libarchive)

LDFLAGS += $(LIBARCHIVELIBS)

(I remove -static)
On x86 you will need a patch available at https://github.com/mhoush/crux-i686/blob/master/pkgutils/pkgutils-x86.patch.
Installing is a simple make install. Now it is time to create a directory /var/lib/pkg and touch the file /var/lib/pkg/db.

Pkgutils uses Pkgfiles, these are buildscripts.
For example, if you want to upgrade file-5.19 to 5.22 and you better do, the best way to do this is rebuilding the already installed file-5.19 by editing the Pkgfile from here: http://downloads.nutyx.org/ports/sekong/base/file/Pkgfile
Change version to 5.19 and change the ./configure --prefix=/usr to ./configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var
Use pkgmk -d to download and build the package.
Install by pkgadd -f packagename#version.tar.gz. The -f is needed because the files are already present.
Now you can edit the Pkgfile so version=5.22 and build a newer package. Update file by pkgadd -u packagename#version.tar.gz.

I find it safer to first rebuild and reinstall the original package and then updating it. But you could also pkgadd -f the updated package in most cases at once.
If someone needs more info, just ask. I think it is a usefull addition to ploplinux.

Buildscripts are available at: https://crux.nu/ports/crux-3.1/ and http://downloads.nutyx.org/ports/
but be sure to check the ploplinux buildscripts first.

[Elmar]

although i said i will never add a packet manager, i will check pkgutils.

[mhe]

although i said i will never add a packet manager, i will check pkgutils.

I do not think a stable distro needs a package manager but it can be usefull to rebuild/patch installed software and/or upgrade.
The other option is rebuilding the entire distro. I used CRUX, Nutyx and LFS before trying plop and I really like the simplicity from pkgutils.
The buildscripts (Pkgfile) are very clean and you can almost copy/paste them directly from existing buildscripts for plop or the (B)LFS book.

[Elmar]

hmm, maybe i missed something, but i see no big benefit with pkgutils.

For example, if you want to upgrade file-5.19 to 5.22 and you better do, the best way to do this is rebuilding the already installed file-5.19 by editing the Pkgfile from here: http://downloads.nutyx.org/ports/sekong/base/file/Pkgfile
Change version to 5.19 and change the ./configure --prefix=/usr to ./configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --localstatedir=/var
Use pkgmk -d to download and build the package.

did you read https://www.plop.at/en/ploplinux/buildtools/compilescripts.html
to work with your example, just download the latest file version, store it in the 000_src directory, edit my build script and change the version number

build script for file: http://download.plop.at/ploplinux/4.3.0/sources/20-core/080_b_file

Code: [Select]

tar xfz 000_src/file-5.19.tar.gz
cd file-5.19

myconfigure


i think, a packet manager should work like apt-get or rpm. i don't think that pkgutils can do similar like dependencies check and install automatically additional programs.

although i said i will never add a packet manager, i will check pkgutils.

I do not think a stable distro needs a package manager but it can be usefull to rebuild/patch installed software and/or upgrade.
The other option is rebuilding the entire distro. I used CRUX, Nutyx and LFS before trying plop and I really like the simplicity from pkgutils.
The buildscripts (Pkgfile) are very clean and you can almost copy/paste them directly from existing buildscripts for plop or the (B)LFS book.

just check my build scripts those are also clean scripts, doing patches, using correct config parameters for different platforms and so on, they are copy/paste compatible with lfs

[mhe]

You are right, it is not a neccesity.
Adding a newer source file or a patch in the src folder will do just fine.

Pkgutils together with ports and prt-get can be used to sync to a repo (with Pkgfiles) and that way you can use an apt-get-like command to upgrade a package, or the entire system.

http://jw.tks6.net/files/crux/prt-get_manual.html
Dependencies are handled with the #depends: inside the Pkgfiles.
prt-get depinst packagename will install the package with needed dependencies.

Personally I just follow CVE and upgrade/rebuild only what is vulnerable. If my system gets too old, I rebuild a newer LFS. Before ploplinux I was running LFS 7.5. I have made a list of core packages that are vulnerable and I will upgrade those next week.

The reason I mentioned the Pkgfiles are clean, was more about the possibilty of a straight copy/paste and no critic on your buildscripts.

[Elmar]

I have made a list of core packages that are vulnerable and I will upgrade those next week.

ahh ok. i planed some time to release an updated plop linux with the latest program versions in may or june

[mhe]

Another reason for me to use pkgutils is that I can reuse the binaries on older machines.
My other installs where a copy of a base LFS installation on other hard drives, but the image of ploplinux is more recent and more complete.
You can even install packages on a mounted drive:
mount the drive and pkgadd -r mountpoint.

[Elmar]

an alternative is to use the "find" command to get the updated files of the last days and copy them to another drive.

[Systemcrasher]

Wow! 

One question and so much traffic in so less time.

Thank you. But i need time to read and more time to understand it.

What i understand up to now:

- pkgutils is like a packagemanager, good to use with plop.

- there is planned an update of plop, including a packagemanager (pkgutils).

Some information of me:

- English is not my first language, so i've problems with all information which is not easy to understand.

- I use VERY old computers, so i've more and more problems with such things like "ATA" and "PAE".

- I use Linux since  summer 2009, beginning with OpenSuse. But at that time Suse doesn't work with all of my old systems. S i tested a lot of distros (without really understanding, what i do). My way: It run or it dosn't run. Next.

At that way i get Puppy very soon (4.3.1 at that time) and it works excelently with my Toshiba Sattelite (198MB / 400MHz).
Smelling blood i get a few older Laptops from the bay, Lattitude, Compaq, and some more.
And every laptop needs another Distro.

So i learned DeLi Linux, and with it i must learn that things ./configure, etc. Because i want to have things, not includet at the Deli Repo.
But the - sorry - shit was: Dependencies.
Installing one package, searching hours of hours to missing libs etc.

At that way i go from Deli to Connos (Next Deli-Version) and from this to Arch Linux. It works at my newest Laptop (Lifebook).
But it doesn't works with the older ones.

Last days i tested Plop (works excellent at the fist testet Laptop (Amilo), but there is nothing better than lynx at browser),Absolute Linux (only works at one Computer, but doesn't works good with wlan), Xubuntu, works live at one computer, but not installed on it. And it dosn't works with the most (PAE-Problem). Crunchbang was ok, but stoppe3d support. Debian (wheezly) isn't really stable, some internet-pages  are filling the swap senseless (Java/Java-script probems?), Suse make me angry (we say "Verschlimmbesserung", it means s.th. like "make it better worse"), because there are includes some braindead "features" which make productive working impossible.

I like it simple, withut bloaded shit like KDE/Gnome, Acrobat, etc.

But sometimes i like to show youtube-video, i like hearing radio with mlpayer (not gmplayer etc.), i like small browsers like surf, midori, dillo. At bigger computers seamonkey is ok.

So i feel, plop is a good thing for me, but i feel too, i must learn very much hard stuff.

My first self-compliled packet was wesnoth, compiled into puppy 4.3.1, and since that time i know what "missing libs" means.

So i don't really like self-compiled packages ....

[mhe]

I use pkgutils to upgrade/rebuild or add software. I provided the info on how to install and build/upgrade a package.

At the moment there are so many distros and on older hardware it is often hit and miss. I used binary distros as well and learned a few things.
Once you dive into compiling, adding, changing and building a linux installation, you really start learning.

You prefer binaries? One more advantage with pkgutils is that it can be used to install archlinux binaries.
Simply download the binary for i686 or x86_64 depending on your hardware, unxz the file, delete the .* files inside the archive, gzip, rename and pkgadd it.
A more detailed description for python-urwid:
Get the binary for i686 from: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/i686/python-urwid/ and choose download and unxz the archive.
Check the content with tar --list -f archive.tar and delete .PKGINFO and .MTREE stuff like so:
tar --delete -f archive.tar .PKGINFO and tar --delete -f archive.tar .MTREE, pacman adds this stuff to the package, but pkgutils does not, so I prefer to delete it.
Now rename the archive as packagename#version.tar and gzip it. You can now install it with pkgadd package#version.tar.gz.

You can check for needed dependencies that might be missing and read the PKGBUILD to find out how it has been build.
It is better that create your own Pkgfile and build it yourself but often this just works.

[Elmar]

- pkgutils is like a packagemanager, good to use with plop.

- there is planned an update of plop, including a packagemanager (pkgutils).

an update of plop linux is planned, but pkgutils will be not included.

Last days i tested Plop (works excellent at the fist testet Laptop (Amilo), but there is nothing better than lynx at browser),Absolute Linux (only works at one Computer, but doesn't works good with wlan),

i dont understand, lynx is part of plop linux and for the graphical ui is firefox or alternatively midori available.

midori has to be compiled for x86 and x64. its quite simple. just download the sources package, change to sources/40-X/20-tools/500-arm-browser/ and run "sh 000_all" to compile midori + dependencies. on slow computers webkit needs long to compile.

[Systemcrasher]

i dont understand, lynx is part of plop linux and for the graphical ui is firefox or alternatively midori available.

 

That was, what i see at the Amilo.
Yesterday i startet plop at another Laptop with the same live-cd, and i have firefox.
I don't know the reason for that different things.
Today i wanted to start that at two other Systems (Dell latitude and Toshiba Sattelite). It didn't start.
I forgot, that the live-CD is burned at a DVD, and that lappis only have CD-ROM.

Make it fun, to run Plop at such old systems?

Pzuppy 6.x is really to hard and bloated for that Lappies. You don't have fun with it.
Lattitude hat Connos this moment, Sattelite an old Puppy (5.1)


midori has to be compiled for x86 and x64.
[/quote]

Nice.

Yesterday i testet wlan at the one Lappi (it's a better one). But it doesn't work. I used a TP-Link and a second one.

These USB-Sticks have problems with the most Linux i tested.
The second one was found by plop, and the most distries doesn't see it. But it doesn't work.
The other one (TP-Link) has not been found. The most distris found that, but it doesn't work....


For the next Update of Plop: For beginners and lazy people like me  :  i like it most to install a Distro from the live. That doesn't works now. I must download it again and install from HD. 

Edit: I didn't find a way to install a gereman keyboard. What i have to do for that?

[mhe]

I tried the live cd once but prefer to install a distro. I cannot tell anything about it.
The way to install plop desktop from the image is very easy.
I boot my pc with a live cd, whatever works and untar with --strip=1 to where I mounted the hard drive.
Then I set up grub with grub-install --boot-directory=/mountpoint/boot, edit /mointpoint/boot/grub/grub.cfg and reboot.

Compiling webkit can take hours, up to a day on an old computer. There are crux binaries available at:
http://crux.ster.zone/packages/3.1-i686/contrib/ for i686.
All you will need is add pkgutils on your ploplinux and you can use it.
This is how it has been compiled: https://crux.nu/ports/crux-3.1/contrib/webkit-gtk2/Pkgfile

You can add midori by searching the deptree, you could use archlinux' at https://www.archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/midori/
The (make) dependencies are not needed if you use binaries all the way back.

If this info is too sparse, I can be more detailed.

[Systemcrasher]

ok, coming on microstep by microstep.

Now i tried plop with LAN, and testing some things with live-cd. vlc is very bloaded, gmplayer doesn't play the videos for testing (youtube-downloads). Ok, missing codecs, could be solved later.

watching video into firefox is really without fun at the laptop i'm running the plop. (yakumo mod:d27e5). Because with installed connos it's no problem, i think it sould be watch with fun after installing midori. But that make no sense at the live.

Now i tried to test the installed version at that lappi.

Problem: Not enough space. Moving unneeded files to usb doesn't work, because i can't connect usb. Gparted see it as "hdc", but i can't mount it, device not exist.  It should be hdc1 or hdc2. I tested it with sdcX, too.

The way changing keyboard is sekxkbmap de, founded here in forum. i was a little disturbished, because loadkeys de was accept, but it doesn't work.

[Elmar]

Now i tried plop with LAN, and testing some things with live-cd. vlc is very bloaded, gmplayer doesn't play the videos for testing (youtube-downloads). Ok, missing codecs, could be solved later.

mplayer should play the most range of videos without problems. personally, i never use the gmplayer frontend. i play all directly from the command line. just pressing windows key - t to open the terminal and run mplayer [file]

Problem: Not enough space. Moving unneeded files to usb doesn't work, because i can't connect usb. Gparted see it as "hdc", but i can't mount it, device not exist.  It should be hdc1 or hdc2. I tested it with sdcX, too.

an usb drive will never be hdc. i dont know what gparted is showing. just use dmesg to get more informations.

The way changing keyboard is sekxkbmap de, founded here in forum. i was a little disturbished, because loadkeys de was accept, but it doesn't work.

loadkeys is for the console
setxkbmap is for X, when you start xfce, then you can also add a keyboard item to the panel to change the layout.

to change the language you have to set the LC_ALL, LANG and LANGUAGE environment variable. set it in the file /etc/profile. you find an example on the live version in the file ploplinux/bin/setlang-german

For the next Update of Plop: For beginners and lazy people like me  ...

i have to say, that plop linux was not made for beginners